First Post

[hoisinsauce]

A space to chat fandom! Anon!

Got a WIP you're excited about? Want to rave about your fave? Or is your fandom absolutely in love with a character who detracts from every scene they bumble into, and you need somewhere to vent? You're in the right place!

(start a comment thread by replying to this post)

Comments

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Saw the under the sea episode! (Fish Out Of Water). I didn't know that was actually the title when I watched it, but I still laughed at the twist on that phrase, so hah the nondialogue was super effective. Made me wonder how many other shows had an ep like this (I think I'm only aware of 'Hush' from Buffy). Enjoyed it a lot, anyway, especially the last joke, and helps that the show is dark enough that perilous sequences can actually feel like they have stakes.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Oh also, from the start, the implied ending of the line so that it now goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him sink". :P I like that the writers seem to really love some good old fashioned wordplay.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Saw the abortion episode. I had high hopes because the clips I'd seen from it were really irreverent, but the episode was a bit too lecturey for my tastes. Less lecturey than most things om US TV on the subject, but still, I was annoyed. They did the whole "Don't worry, everyone, women make jokes about this to deal with Difficult Feelings!". Because we're never allowed to just make jokes about things. And I'm not really a fan of comedy trying to justify its own existence mid-episode. Oh well.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Today's episode was a bit fillery (the one where he tries to cancel a newspaper subscription and talks a bunch about his life), but there was one thing I really liked about it. Requires a bit of backstory for best effect.

So, a friend of mine has always been very scathing toward House. He reckons Dr. House is an embarrassing Gary Stu self-insert with a doofy name and the whole show is stupid (I haven't seen it so can't comment, but he tends to be gentler toward TV shows than I am, so I'm inclined to think it must be pretty bad).

Anyyyyway, a while back, he described an episode that left him speechless as it hit a new low. So, apparently, House is on a videocall with a woman. He's on a videocall because she's in the Arctic and he's advising her on how to perform lifesaving surgery on herself, in realtime, as she makes the cuts according to his instructions. This plot is already extremely plausible, but then, mid-surgery, she starts quizzing House on his feelings, psychoanalysing him, talking about why he doesn't open up, etc.

My friend was enraged. "She's performing. surgery. on. herself! Why would she give a shit?! She's got her own shit going on! Surgery!"

And gotta say, it did sound like the epitome of treating a female character like a mindless prop for a man.

So all that is to say, I appreciated the contrast with this Bojack episode. It feels like the writers went "we want Bojack to talk about his feelings, but he would never agree to go to therapy. Someone should talk to him. But who would actually do that? Who would have a *reason* to want to listen?" and they arrived at "a business trying to stop him from unsubscribing". I like how the only time someone probes into his problems with interest, it's because they want something from him.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

NA I can't believe I'm gonna defend House MD, but...I'm kinda gonna defend it, sorry. xD It was a massively long show with a shit ton of different writers and directors, and while it was never good with, like...ANY social issue (other than occasionally disability), there was some fantastic acting and (occasionally) great writing. House was fucked up and rude and awful and he got punished for that, a lot. I still have very soft feelings for the show, despite actively disliking a lot of it. xD

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Haha, defend away! It's kind of a running joke that this guy is the only guy in my circle who hates House, and everyone else loves it. So the more people who like it, the funnier it is.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, makes sense. It's the kind of thing that would get me downvoted to hell on ovarit for admitting I like it, certainly. xD

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Well I just saw someone downvote someone else for... cooking a meal?... so that's ovarit for ya.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

I preferred saidit's lack of downvotes, TBH. The other day I got my first downvote for...criticizing Amazon product placement in Nomadland? Oh well. xD

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

I have mixed feelings; I think they may be useful when a blatant troll shows up because it makes it a bit harder for people pretend that the troll's views are representative. I've had so many by now I've forgotten what most were for, thouuuuugh my personal fave was the time someone asked me 'what is it like to experience $thing?', I told them since I had experienced it, and someone else downvoted me for it. Like sorry reality wasn't what you like to hear, I guess? Also got downvoted for asking someone where she was getting her stats from. She never did reply because she was making them up.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I get the troll thing. But it seems like people can never remember you're not really supposed to use downvotes when somebody's just expressing an opinion. They're allowed to add to the conversation!

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Hahaha what? Oh, ovarit.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, in that 'small victories' thread if you want to try to puzzle it out. The only thing I could think of was, since she was cooking chicken, maybe it was a vengeful vegan? I know people spam the vegan circle with downvotes, so maybe one of the regular posters there has decided to take revenge and downvote any mentions of meat elsewhere on the site. Orrr maybe someone's hatestalking that commenter and just downvoting everything she writes for no reason. Or maybe someone's finger slipped.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

SA

More Bojack misc thoughts! Clearly I should start a watchalong blog where I try to find offensive things in every episode and charge people 20 dollars apiece for reaction videos.

Got 2 Princess-Carolyn-ful episodes! So very pleased about that. She broke my heart a bit at the end of the first one. V guvax gur vavgvny fvghngvba (univat fperjrq Ynhen bire lrnef ntb) zvtug rira unir orra fnyintnoyr vs fur'q pbzr pyrna sebz gur fgneg naq qencrq vg va synggrel, ohg oyngnagyl ylvat gb pynvz fur'q qbar gur *bccbfvgr* jnf gur jbefg guvat V'ir frra ure qb. V jnf n ovg fnq/qvfnccbvagrq gb frr vg fvapr abeznyyl V'z ebbgvat sbe ure. Ohg gur arkg rc erzvaqrq zr bs jul V yvxr ure naq jul V srry cebgrpgvir bire ure, unun. Gubhtu vg ernyyl jbhyq or orggre sbe ure gb unir n pyrna oernx sebz Obwnpx. Ohg gura V guvax gur cbvag vf gung gung vf fb boivbhf. (V fgvyy srry yvxr V unir gb urqtr, orpnhfr yby, yvxr V xabj ubj crbcyr jbex...)

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Finished s3. More to say, but will note that the Todd ace thing didn't bother me; it didn't feel lecturey or out of character or anything. I'd got the impression from here that there was some great announcement! But he didn't even use the word, so meh. I did think his whole arc this season was pointless, that bit included. I don't get why he cared that Bojack slept with Emily. Why would he care. It felt like a lot of drama over nothing. I wondered if the ace bit was a joke I wasn't getting, like we as the audience were supposed to wonder what dark secret was leading to his behaviour, only to find out that the whole story was that nonstory. The rest of the season was good, anyway. I am resigned to Todd being around as a catalyst for other characters to do things, but I still find him dull in his own right.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

SA

More misc Bojack S3 thoughts

So, first-- Cabracadabra! This is unintentionally an amazing satire on the current situation with women's single-sex services and I loved it.

The albino rhino gyno wine-addict! This is so far my favourite joke of the whole show. (I think followed by the earlier season's Hank Hippopopalous tongue twisters)

Diane's new writing job is a fucking terrible idea. I know this is obvious but I just gotta say. I am hard-pressed to think of a worse idea. Except maybe all of Bojack's ideas.

Props to the writers for finding a use for the spaghetti strainers.

Spoilers from here...

Zvfp. gubhtugf ba Fnenu Ylaa:

Fb, V unq guvf cybg nep fcbvyrq orsber jngpuvat, fb, l'xabj, qba'g gnxr gur ynpx bs ernpgvba nf n fvta gung guvf abaal vf gbgnyyl urnegyrff (v nz, nf vg unccraf, gbgnyyl urnegyrff, ohg gung'f whfg n pbvapvqrapr). Ure nep jnf n ovvvvt cneg bs jung znqr zr jnag gb jngpu gur fubj. Gur cevpxyl zhssva zhfvp ivq arneyl unq zr pel-ynhtuvat. V jnf vagrerfgrq gb frr ubj zhpu gur fubj jbhyq trg vagb ubj gur ragregnvazrag vaqhfgel fperjf crbcyr hc, naq rfcrpvnyyl jbzra va frk-fcrpvsvp jnlf. Fb, V xarj ure qrngu jnf pbzvat, ohg abg rknpgyl jura, be nyy gur qrgnvyf.

Fb svefg rivy wbxr: ure pngpucuenfr vf 'gung'f gbb zhpu, zna!'. Naq fur BQf. V nffhzr gung jnf cynaarq evtug sebz gur fgneg bs gur fubj...

V yvxr gung fur fgnlrq pbzcyrgryl boabkvbhf naq gurl qvqa'g gel gb ghea ure vagb n fnvag be fbzrguvat. Fur'f n frysvfu, qrfgehpgvir, ibyngvyr crefba juvyr nyfb orvat fhcre ihyarenoyr naq haqrfreivat bs gur fuvggl unaq yvsr qrnyg ure. V xrrc jnirevat ba jurgure V'z cyrnfrq be abg gung fur jnf gur bar gb cbhe urefrys ure svefg qevax nybar va ure ubhfr; V xvaq bs jbaqre vs Obwnpx fubhyq unir unq zber pbageby bire gung (fvapr nyy ur qbrf ng svefg vf pnyy; fur'f tbg gur pnovarg ernql gb unaq). Ur'f ranoyvat ure bsp, ohg V pna'g qrpvqr vs gur aneengvir jbhyq uvg uneqre vs ur jrer *zber* erfcbafvoyr, be vs gung jbhyq trg n ovg gbb pybfr gb znxvat ure natryvp. V tb onpx naq sbegu ba vg. Znlor vg'f gbb pyvpurq gb tvir uvz gung ebyr. Znlor vg qbrfa'g znggre nyy gung zhpu.

Naljnl, gur urebva jnf va uvf tybir pbzcnegzrag, naq fur jnf xvyyrq ol 'Obwnpx', whfg gb eho vg va. V gubhtug gung cybg rneyvre va gur frnfba jnf sybngvat nebhaq n ovg fgenatryl, ohg vg znxrf frafr abj. Naq V guvax vg jbexf jryy; fbzrgvzrf Obwnpx'f srzvavfg pevgvpvfz vf irel ba-gur-abfr naq snyyf n ovg syng orpnhfr bs vg, ohg V yvxrq ubj urer vg jnf whfg qrzbafgengrq guebhtu gur aneengvir-- Fnenu Ylaa vf n zrtn-snzbhf cbcfgne, gur junyr vf n cbbe haxabja, ohg hygvzngryl nf jbzra gurl'er rkcybvgrq ol zra va gur fnzr jnl, hfrq sbe frk, cvpx hc gur fnzr gbkvp pbcvat zrpunavfzf naq hygvzngryl qvr orpnhfr bs jung zra unir qbar gb gurz. (nyfb juvyr jr'er urer, czfy ng gur junyr jbeyq yncqnaprf sbe xvqf; ernyyl pncgherq gung perrcl qlanzvp jurer ohfvarff cerfragf fbzrguvat oyngnagyl frkhny nf snzvyl sha naq rirelbar'f whfg tbvat nybat jvgu vg naq lbh'er yvxr 'JGS???')

V'z phevbhf nobhg gur flzobyvfz bs gur Bcuryvn cevag oruvaq ure orq. V zrna, Bcuryvn qvrf, boi, ohg V'z jbaqrevat vs gurer ner zber ynlref gb vg gung V'z abg cvpxvat hc ba, fvapr gur pvephzfgnaprf ner cerggl qvssrerag.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Found a clip that sums up women's spaces on reddit:

https://youtu.be/tGOcxgg8Lmc

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

SA

SPOKE TOO SOON. Started S4 and everything that was fine about how they handled it in s3, they took a sledgehammer to. Every cell in my body was cringing. A meetup?!! I hope they're doing this on purpose for the cringe and we get to see how fucking batshit those circles are, played like the improv cult on the earlier season, because no sane person needs a *meetup* because they don't feel attracted to other people; it's like having a meetup for people who *don't* like carbonated water, "I don't like bubbles" "me neither" boom the end what was the point. I hate how it lectured the audience. It kept making my feet twitch uncontrollably. I reallyyyy hope that if I have to see any more of this, they play it for laughs. But I'd rather NOT see it because so far it's just embarrassing and pointless.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Normally I'm on Diane's side in the Diane vs Mr Peanutbutter fights, but I did think she was being a bit bratty at the end of S4 (although understandably it wasn't really about the library, but about all the other bullshit over the months). So I went looking around online to see how people took it and wow do I regret that, people are so misogynistic lol. It's just pages of 'mr pb is the greatest, diane is so so mean, even worse than bojack, booooooooooo!'. Like wtf show are you watching.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

NA

The internet is the worst to Diane. She handled things poorly at the end of S4, but it was human and understandable! People act like MPB is a literal innocent puppy that she kicked.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Yes! As I was reading, I was like 'you realise he's not ACTUALLY a puppy, right????' They were a terrible match from the start, he constantly does annoying shit, he seems to barely know her as a person, and the power dynamic is uneasily uneven. So... I thought people would know that? But I guess I forgot how much people hate women. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ Like I agree with the criticism that she neglects people close to her while pursuing whatever 'good' politics, that she gets offended when other people don't read her mind and takes out her frustrations on whomever's nearest, and that mpb is a much more active participant in their relationship, but I disliked how the pieces I read presented it as 'Diane is the worrrrst character in the show because she does this'-- like really? The WORST? And they kind of phrased it like Diane was wrong not to *defer* to mpb, rather than acknowledge they have incompatible politics and they probably need to address that. It came across more like they thought Diane should just shut up and go along with whatever he was doing. His wants are just assumed to be more important than hers. Which is especially daft given what he's actually *doing* at any given moment.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Saw the ep where Bojack becomes a "male feminist" for validation. It was nicely unlecturey on the whole and just a good satire, and they undercut the parts that did get a bit lecturey, by making the characters massive hypocrites. Ended on a grim cliffhanger so kinda scared to see what happens next (well, have watched next ep, but that was a princess carolyn ep, so cliffhanger is still very much... hanging).

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

I can't get over how well-choreographed this show is. Like the scene where Hollyhock is searching Gina's house behind Gina's back, and Bojack is giving Hollyhock instructions by working them into the conversation with Gina. It's real stage comedy stuff, I love it.

Also Officer Meowmeow Fuzzyface's teen costume was amazing.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

https://preview.redd.it/4iz3512chxn11.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=868fa0171725834b5ea1d942d6f95c22740e65a5

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Finished S5! Only one season left! :0 Though I'm also relieved; whenever I have a show to watch, I feel like it's looming over me until I finish. And hey, the last season is longer, anyway. And at least now I can try looking for other stuff by the same team next time I need a comedy show.

I liked the joke that the only time anyone took issue with the sex robot was when it switched to *not* sexually harassing people. I think you could stretch that into some metaphor for what people are and are not cancelled for.

Also enjoyed Diane's character growth, even though I'm not sure she's grown so much as is trying to find any aphorisms she can to slot together to sleep at night. Stefani cracked me up. I especially liked her line about having never been told 'no' as a child so literally not understanding the concept.

Mr Peanutbutter's arc this season was my fave of his so far. I like that the script went into 'hey, this guy is also a bit of a scumbag, isn't he?'-- but it has to tell that story while contending with his complete lack of self-awareness. Seems like a fun challenge. And lol at him being like 'well you may feel miserable all the time but I don't and thus I don't know how to deal with it!'

Princess Carolyn's development this season was also interesting. I felt like they asked the question of 'how much is she enabling these dangerous men around her?' without being really clunky about it, and I appreciated that. I like that we as the audience were left to make our own minds up on how much she's doing out of self-interest, how much because she cares about the guys involved, how much because she's trying to protect everyone else's jobs... I'm glad her life is mostly going okay; despite her flexible approach to the truth, she's still my fave. I sometimes wonder how much of that is just down to her default expression looking happy and smug. She does look like a cat! :P But I think I just like people who are good at their jobs.

Am really hoping Gina will be unscathed in the longterm, though am probably being too optimistic. I've spent the whole season anxious for her because she seems so sweet and vulnerable under the introversion.

Am also curious about what fanart is out there reimagining the character designs as human. xD I might have some fun with that myself.