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A space to chat fandom! Anon!

Got a WIP you're excited about? Want to rave about your fave? Or is your fandom absolutely in love with a character who detracts from every scene they bumble into, and you need somewhere to vent? You're in the right place!

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From: (Anonymous)

SA

Finished s3. More to say, but will note that the Todd ace thing didn't bother me; it didn't feel lecturey or out of character or anything. I'd got the impression from here that there was some great announcement! But he didn't even use the word, so meh. I did think his whole arc this season was pointless, that bit included. I don't get why he cared that Bojack slept with Emily. Why would he care. It felt like a lot of drama over nothing. I wondered if the ace bit was a joke I wasn't getting, like we as the audience were supposed to wonder what dark secret was leading to his behaviour, only to find out that the whole story was that nonstory. The rest of the season was good, anyway. I am resigned to Todd being around as a catalyst for other characters to do things, but I still find him dull in his own right.

From: (Anonymous)

SA

More misc Bojack S3 thoughts

So, first-- Cabracadabra! This is unintentionally an amazing satire on the current situation with women's single-sex services and I loved it.

The albino rhino gyno wine-addict! This is so far my favourite joke of the whole show. (I think followed by the earlier season's Hank Hippopopalous tongue twisters)

Diane's new writing job is a fucking terrible idea. I know this is obvious but I just gotta say. I am hard-pressed to think of a worse idea. Except maybe all of Bojack's ideas.

Props to the writers for finding a use for the spaghetti strainers.

Spoilers from here...

Zvfp. gubhtugf ba Fnenu Ylaa:

Fb, V unq guvf cybg nep fcbvyrq orsber jngpuvat, fb, l'xabj, qba'g gnxr gur ynpx bs ernpgvba nf n fvta gung guvf abaal vf gbgnyyl urnegyrff (v nz, nf vg unccraf, gbgnyyl urnegyrff, ohg gung'f whfg n pbvapvqrapr). Ure nep jnf n ovvvvt cneg bs jung znqr zr jnag gb jngpu gur fubj. Gur cevpxyl zhssva zhfvp ivq arneyl unq zr pel-ynhtuvat. V jnf vagrerfgrq gb frr ubj zhpu gur fubj jbhyq trg vagb ubj gur ragregnvazrag vaqhfgel fperjf crbcyr hc, naq rfcrpvnyyl jbzra va frk-fcrpvsvp jnlf. Fb, V xarj ure qrngu jnf pbzvat, ohg abg rknpgyl jura, be nyy gur qrgnvyf.

Fb svefg rivy wbxr: ure pngpucuenfr vf 'gung'f gbb zhpu, zna!'. Naq fur BQf. V nffhzr gung jnf cynaarq evtug sebz gur fgneg bs gur fubj...

V yvxr gung fur fgnlrq pbzcyrgryl boabkvbhf naq gurl qvqa'g gel gb ghea ure vagb n fnvag be fbzrguvat. Fur'f n frysvfu, qrfgehpgvir, ibyngvyr crefba juvyr nyfb orvat fhcre ihyarenoyr naq haqrfreivat bs gur fuvggl unaq yvsr qrnyg ure. V xrrc jnirevat ba jurgure V'z cyrnfrq be abg gung fur jnf gur bar gb cbhe urefrys ure svefg qevax nybar va ure ubhfr; V xvaq bs jbaqre vs Obwnpx fubhyq unir unq zber pbageby bire gung (fvapr nyy ur qbrf ng svefg vf pnyy; fur'f tbg gur pnovarg ernql gb unaq). Ur'f ranoyvat ure bsp, ohg V pna'g qrpvqr vs gur aneengvir jbhyq uvg uneqre vs ur jrer *zber* erfcbafvoyr, be vs gung jbhyq trg n ovg gbb pybfr gb znxvat ure natryvp. V tb onpx naq sbegu ba vg. Znlor vg'f gbb pyvpurq gb tvir uvz gung ebyr. Znlor vg qbrfa'g znggre nyy gung zhpu.

Naljnl, gur urebva jnf va uvf tybir pbzcnegzrag, naq fur jnf xvyyrq ol 'Obwnpx', whfg gb eho vg va. V gubhtug gung cybg rneyvre va gur frnfba jnf sybngvat nebhaq n ovg fgenatryl, ohg vg znxrf frafr abj. Naq V guvax vg jbexf jryy; fbzrgvzrf Obwnpx'f srzvavfg pevgvpvfz vf irel ba-gur-abfr naq snyyf n ovg syng orpnhfr bs vg, ohg V yvxrq ubj urer vg jnf whfg qrzbafgengrq guebhtu gur aneengvir-- Fnenu Ylaa vf n zrtn-snzbhf cbcfgne, gur junyr vf n cbbe haxabja, ohg hygvzngryl nf jbzra gurl'er rkcybvgrq ol zra va gur fnzr jnl, hfrq sbe frk, cvpx hc gur fnzr gbkvp pbcvat zrpunavfzf naq hygvzngryl qvr orpnhfr bs jung zra unir qbar gb gurz. (nyfb juvyr jr'er urer, czfy ng gur junyr jbeyq yncqnaprf sbe xvqf; ernyyl pncgherq gung perrcl qlanzvp jurer ohfvarff cerfragf fbzrguvat oyngnagyl frkhny nf snzvyl sha naq rirelbar'f whfg tbvat nybat jvgu vg naq lbh'er yvxr 'JGS???')

V'z phevbhf nobhg gur flzobyvfz bs gur Bcuryvn cevag oruvaq ure orq. V zrna, Bcuryvn qvrf, boi, ohg V'z jbaqrevat vs gurer ner zber ynlref gb vg gung V'z abg cvpxvat hc ba, fvapr gur pvephzfgnaprf ner cerggl qvssrerag.

From: (Anonymous)

Found a clip that sums up women's spaces on reddit:

https://youtu.be/tGOcxgg8Lmc

From: (Anonymous)

SA

SPOKE TOO SOON. Started S4 and everything that was fine about how they handled it in s3, they took a sledgehammer to. Every cell in my body was cringing. A meetup?!! I hope they're doing this on purpose for the cringe and we get to see how fucking batshit those circles are, played like the improv cult on the earlier season, because no sane person needs a *meetup* because they don't feel attracted to other people; it's like having a meetup for people who *don't* like carbonated water, "I don't like bubbles" "me neither" boom the end what was the point. I hate how it lectured the audience. It kept making my feet twitch uncontrollably. I reallyyyy hope that if I have to see any more of this, they play it for laughs. But I'd rather NOT see it because so far it's just embarrassing and pointless.

From: (Anonymous)

Normally I'm on Diane's side in the Diane vs Mr Peanutbutter fights, but I did think she was being a bit bratty at the end of S4 (although understandably it wasn't really about the library, but about all the other bullshit over the months). So I went looking around online to see how people took it and wow do I regret that, people are so misogynistic lol. It's just pages of 'mr pb is the greatest, diane is so so mean, even worse than bojack, booooooooooo!'. Like wtf show are you watching.

From: (Anonymous)

NA

The internet is the worst to Diane. She handled things poorly at the end of S4, but it was human and understandable! People act like MPB is a literal innocent puppy that she kicked.

From: (Anonymous)

ayrt

Yes! As I was reading, I was like 'you realise he's not ACTUALLY a puppy, right????' They were a terrible match from the start, he constantly does annoying shit, he seems to barely know her as a person, and the power dynamic is uneasily uneven. So... I thought people would know that? But I guess I forgot how much people hate women. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ Like I agree with the criticism that she neglects people close to her while pursuing whatever 'good' politics, that she gets offended when other people don't read her mind and takes out her frustrations on whomever's nearest, and that mpb is a much more active participant in their relationship, but I disliked how the pieces I read presented it as 'Diane is the worrrrst character in the show because she does this'-- like really? The WORST? And they kind of phrased it like Diane was wrong not to *defer* to mpb, rather than acknowledge they have incompatible politics and they probably need to address that. It came across more like they thought Diane should just shut up and go along with whatever he was doing. His wants are just assumed to be more important than hers. Which is especially daft given what he's actually *doing* at any given moment.

From: (Anonymous)

sa

eg: https://www.hercampus.com/school/kenyon/case-diane-nguyen-bojack-horseman is attempting to be pro-diane, but I think if you hadn't seen the series you'd get a very unrepresentative idea of her character...

From: (Anonymous)

ayrt

Yeah, that article's rather harsh toward her. I do think it's a legitimate point that she's set up to have the moral high ground, and people judge those characters more harshly when they mess up, no matter who they are. Bojack was very clearly a trash heap from the start. It's funny and annoying that people criticize Diane so much for unintended consequences, though. She causes some collateral damage to friends, but nobody cares that Todd may have pnhfrq gur pbyyncfr bs na ragver pbhagel.

From: (Anonymous)

Won't unspoiler that yet since I've just finished s4 and idk if that's for something afterwards, though he's certainly already done a bunch of stuff that's wayyy worse than Diane. Didn't he cause a literal genocide in s2?

And yeah, to pick a couple of lines from that article:

> just to free some chickens

Humans and other animals are supposed to be equal in that show! The chickens could be seen as people who've had their minds destroyed by horrific experiments. And how is "arguing with mr peanutbutter" "very bad behaviour"??? He made a promise to her, instantly broke that promise, and started to damage the environment because his image was so important to him. Howwww do you twist that into Diane behaving badly? Bah.

From: (Anonymous)

Yep, the s2 genocide is what I was talking about. I like how there are such inconsistent consequences to everyone's actions in-universe, but it's disappointing how many people who watch the show take it as face value commentary on how moral each character is.

Also this one:

>Diane jeopardizes her husband’s job by trying to out his sexually abusive co-worker. The co-worker gets away with it.

How is it her fault that he gets away with it? Oof.

From: (Anonymous)

Oh, hah. Yeah, that made me go 'wut' (sidenote: I really liked how they handled that plot! A lesser show would have made her succeed or at least have made a tiny difference, but this just went for total bleakness, and I appreciated that since it stopped it feeling patronising and didactic). And yeahhh, it sounds like some viewers need to realise that 'degree of emotion shown onscreen by characters' is not a reliable barometer of the actual severity of other characters' actions. A big part of the joke with that genocide is that everyone onscreen is arguing over their morality because of these smaller things *while ignoring it*. Or better yet, viewers could stop turning to their TV for moral instruction. :P

From: (Anonymous)

SA

Oh, and also, just remembered, from the article:

> The reason she’s so disliked is because of who she ends up hurting the most: Mr. Peanutbutter. Mr. Peanutbutter is (understandably, he’s a Yellow Lab) one of the most likeable characters in the show.

*Really*???

From: (Anonymous)

ayrt

This is one of my favorite things about the show. People's interpretations of characters in shows always vary, but it's SUCH a dramatic difference from person to person for BH. And yeah, it's easy to pick out the misogynists by their take on Diane. I've seen a bunch of people online talking about how relatable *Todd* was, and I was just... boggling. I spent almost the whole show thinking he was a cardboard cutout put there as comic relief. Turns out no! There was also one scene toward the end that clicked his character into place for me. Kind of preachy, but. It made sense, taken in a broader way than the actual lines.

From: (Anonymous)

Haha, my friend likes Todd, but I think it's more that the comedy in his scenes is more in line with his sense of humor. I'm not a fan of zany comedy in general and prefer the dark stuff, so for me Todd is just kind of... there. He's still in my bucket of 'he's there to let other more interesting characters do things', though maybe I'll move him to another bucket as I see more. :P

Yeah, there's a lot to say about all the characters, and they change over time, so I can see how people can end up with completely different interpretations, and I'm enjoying arguing with friends after I watch episodes because our sympathies tend to lie with different characters. :D There's just a point with some of the online criticism where I'm like 'okay, it really seems like you didn't watch the character on the screen and just substituted in one of your own invention'.

From: (Anonymous)

Saw the ep where Bojack becomes a "male feminist" for validation. It was nicely unlecturey on the whole and just a good satire, and they undercut the parts that did get a bit lecturey, by making the characters massive hypocrites. Ended on a grim cliffhanger so kinda scared to see what happens next (well, have watched next ep, but that was a princess carolyn ep, so cliffhanger is still very much... hanging).

From: (Anonymous)

I can't get over how well-choreographed this show is. Like the scene where Hollyhock is searching Gina's house behind Gina's back, and Bojack is giving Hollyhock instructions by working them into the conversation with Gina. It's real stage comedy stuff, I love it.

Also Officer Meowmeow Fuzzyface's teen costume was amazing.

From: (Anonymous)

https://preview.redd.it/4iz3512chxn11.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=868fa0171725834b5ea1d942d6f95c22740e65a5

From: (Anonymous)

Finished S5! Only one season left! :0 Though I'm also relieved; whenever I have a show to watch, I feel like it's looming over me until I finish. And hey, the last season is longer, anyway. And at least now I can try looking for other stuff by the same team next time I need a comedy show.

I liked the joke that the only time anyone took issue with the sex robot was when it switched to *not* sexually harassing people. I think you could stretch that into some metaphor for what people are and are not cancelled for.

Also enjoyed Diane's character growth, even though I'm not sure she's grown so much as is trying to find any aphorisms she can to slot together to sleep at night. Stefani cracked me up. I especially liked her line about having never been told 'no' as a child so literally not understanding the concept.

Mr Peanutbutter's arc this season was my fave of his so far. I like that the script went into 'hey, this guy is also a bit of a scumbag, isn't he?'-- but it has to tell that story while contending with his complete lack of self-awareness. Seems like a fun challenge. And lol at him being like 'well you may feel miserable all the time but I don't and thus I don't know how to deal with it!'

Princess Carolyn's development this season was also interesting. I felt like they asked the question of 'how much is she enabling these dangerous men around her?' without being really clunky about it, and I appreciated that. I like that we as the audience were left to make our own minds up on how much she's doing out of self-interest, how much because she cares about the guys involved, how much because she's trying to protect everyone else's jobs... I'm glad her life is mostly going okay; despite her flexible approach to the truth, she's still my fave. I sometimes wonder how much of that is just down to her default expression looking happy and smug. She does look like a cat! :P But I think I just like people who are good at their jobs.

Am really hoping Gina will be unscathed in the longterm, though am probably being too optimistic. I've spent the whole season anxious for her because she seems so sweet and vulnerable under the introversion.

Am also curious about what fanart is out there reimagining the character designs as human. xD I might have some fun with that myself.

From: (Anonymous)

SA

On S6, loved the set/choreography/fake-camera-work for the surprise wedding party episode! I know nothing much about visual direction but I suspect the show would reward a viewer who did.

Also was pleased to find a clip of Pickles as a livestreamer/influencer, so I could rewatch and catch the background gags on my phone. The text is too small to read from the sofa so I've probably missed loads of jokes over the seasons... https://youtu.be/HqhfOyKJiTA

From: (Anonymous)

SA

Midway through s6, enjoying it less than the earlier seasons; feels a bit more lecturey and the writing is less sharp. Diane's bf kinda doesn't have a character. Am enjoying mr peanutbutter's arc, though. The scene where he and that pop star decide they must be so depressed they don't even know they're depressed was very reminiscent of tumblr-self-diagnosis. :P And enjoying all the small porcupine gags.

From: (Anonymous)

Sa

So kinda glad this is the last season; currently feels a bit like if GoT had decided to end at s5. Will see how the next half goes...

From: (Anonymous)

SA

Still finding it a bit eh. Am enjoying Page Sinclair, though! I <3 the 40s style repartee. But in general feels like too many people are obsessing over their mental health and What It Means To Be A Good Person and I don't care. It feels like the writers have got a bit too attached to the characters and the comedy suffers for it. They're definitely playing up Princess Carolyn as an enabler/corrupter this season, which is fair enough since hey at least it adds some variety, though am a bit sad because she's my fave. But I did laugh that she was like "wtf these students didn't even buy alcohol", bc I've been struck by how *childish* the students are on this. They come across as closer to 12 than 18. I know it's poking fun but it's also just weird when the show itself seems to be taking their unrealistic reactions seriously. And then the hinge of the season this time around doesn't feel convincing, though many of the elements feel like the shoulllld work. But "Penny traumatised by Bojack showing up again with Sarah Lynn when she was previously fine" works as a gag, but I just don't think she'd have panic attacks years later over what happened. Acute embarrassment and rage, sure. I worry they thought they needed to do Responsible Storytelling and the show suffered for it, because it sacrificed some realism to tell the "right" story. Still a few more eps, will see how it goes.

From: (Anonymous)

Very near the end of the season, now. Have enjoyed the last few episodes much more.

From: (Anonymous)

Finished! S6ep15, oof. That Secretariat-Butterscotch poem, chills. I don't normally cry at Bojack but did well up there.

One thing we did wonder: wtf was going on with PC's dress in the last episode? It was so weird! And yet the internet seems to have no thoughts on it??? I wondered if it was some sort of pun and if I knew anything whatsoever about fashion design I'd recognise a bunch of cat-themed features or something. Or maybe it was just based on some famous dress...

Anyway, attempting to search it led to the wonderful world of bojack cosplay; allow me to present:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a0/7c/aa/a07caae97cbeb9a462adde05c54e385f.jpg

:'D

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(Anonymous) - Re: Bojack Horseman

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