First Post

[hoisinsauce]

A space to chat fandom! Anon!

Got a WIP you're excited about? Want to rave about your fave? Or is your fandom absolutely in love with a character who detracts from every scene they bumble into, and you need somewhere to vent? You're in the right place!

(start a comment thread by replying to this post)

Comments

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

NA

The internet is the worst to Diane. She handled things poorly at the end of S4, but it was human and understandable! People act like MPB is a literal innocent puppy that she kicked.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Yes! As I was reading, I was like 'you realise he's not ACTUALLY a puppy, right????' They were a terrible match from the start, he constantly does annoying shit, he seems to barely know her as a person, and the power dynamic is uneasily uneven. So... I thought people would know that? But I guess I forgot how much people hate women. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ Like I agree with the criticism that she neglects people close to her while pursuing whatever 'good' politics, that she gets offended when other people don't read her mind and takes out her frustrations on whomever's nearest, and that mpb is a much more active participant in their relationship, but I disliked how the pieces I read presented it as 'Diane is the worrrrst character in the show because she does this'-- like really? The WORST? And they kind of phrased it like Diane was wrong not to *defer* to mpb, rather than acknowledge they have incompatible politics and they probably need to address that. It came across more like they thought Diane should just shut up and go along with whatever he was doing. His wants are just assumed to be more important than hers. Which is especially daft given what he's actually *doing* at any given moment.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

sa

eg: https://www.hercampus.com/school/kenyon/case-diane-nguyen-bojack-horseman is attempting to be pro-diane, but I think if you hadn't seen the series you'd get a very unrepresentative idea of her character...

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Yeah, that article's rather harsh toward her. I do think it's a legitimate point that she's set up to have the moral high ground, and people judge those characters more harshly when they mess up, no matter who they are. Bojack was very clearly a trash heap from the start. It's funny and annoying that people criticize Diane so much for unintended consequences, though. She causes some collateral damage to friends, but nobody cares that Todd may have pnhfrq gur pbyyncfr bs na ragver pbhagel.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Won't unspoiler that yet since I've just finished s4 and idk if that's for something afterwards, though he's certainly already done a bunch of stuff that's wayyy worse than Diane. Didn't he cause a literal genocide in s2?

And yeah, to pick a couple of lines from that article:

> just to free some chickens

Humans and other animals are supposed to be equal in that show! The chickens could be seen as people who've had their minds destroyed by horrific experiments. And how is "arguing with mr peanutbutter" "very bad behaviour"??? He made a promise to her, instantly broke that promise, and started to damage the environment because his image was so important to him. Howwww do you twist that into Diane behaving badly? Bah.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Yep, the s2 genocide is what I was talking about. I like how there are such inconsistent consequences to everyone's actions in-universe, but it's disappointing how many people who watch the show take it as face value commentary on how moral each character is.

Also this one:

>Diane jeopardizes her husband’s job by trying to out his sexually abusive co-worker. The co-worker gets away with it.

How is it her fault that he gets away with it? Oof.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, hah. Yeah, that made me go 'wut' (sidenote: I really liked how they handled that plot! A lesser show would have made her succeed or at least have made a tiny difference, but this just went for total bleakness, and I appreciated that since it stopped it feeling patronising and didactic). And yeahhh, it sounds like some viewers need to realise that 'degree of emotion shown onscreen by characters' is not a reliable barometer of the actual severity of other characters' actions. A big part of the joke with that genocide is that everyone onscreen is arguing over their morality because of these smaller things *while ignoring it*. Or better yet, viewers could stop turning to their TV for moral instruction. :P

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Oh, and also, just remembered, from the article:

> The reason she’s so disliked is because of who she ends up hurting the most: Mr. Peanutbutter. Mr. Peanutbutter is (understandably, he’s a Yellow Lab) one of the most likeable characters in the show.

*Really*???

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

This is one of my favorite things about the show. People's interpretations of characters in shows always vary, but it's SUCH a dramatic difference from person to person for BH. And yeah, it's easy to pick out the misogynists by their take on Diane. I've seen a bunch of people online talking about how relatable *Todd* was, and I was just... boggling. I spent almost the whole show thinking he was a cardboard cutout put there as comic relief. Turns out no! There was also one scene toward the end that clicked his character into place for me. Kind of preachy, but. It made sense, taken in a broader way than the actual lines.

Re: Bojack Horseman

[(Anonymous)]

Haha, my friend likes Todd, but I think it's more that the comedy in his scenes is more in line with his sense of humor. I'm not a fan of zany comedy in general and prefer the dark stuff, so for me Todd is just kind of... there. He's still in my bucket of 'he's there to let other more interesting characters do things', though maybe I'll move him to another bucket as I see more. :P

Yeah, there's a lot to say about all the characters, and they change over time, so I can see how people can end up with completely different interpretations, and I'm enjoying arguing with friends after I watch episodes because our sympathies tend to lie with different characters. :D There's just a point with some of the online criticism where I'm like 'okay, it really seems like you didn't watch the character on the screen and just substituted in one of your own invention'.